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Tuesday, 13 February 2007
Who you gonna believe? This ...
More confusion on the rally.
First, The Associated Press said:
Hundreds of people, including many school children who arrived by the busload, gathered at the Statehouse on Tuesday, rallying for legislation that would help parents send their young ones to private schools.
Later in the day, The Associated Press said:
Thousands of people, including many private school children who arrived by the busload, gathered at the Statehouse on Tuesday, rallying for legislation that would help parents send their young ones to private schools.
Maybe the busloads of "private school children" arrived after the first version was filed. I don't know. Note the AP picture above, which was taken from a rather different angle from mine. And possibly at a different time; I don't know.
Anyway, remember -- for the truth, in all its infinite variety, come to Brad Warthen's Blog, which is always first with the burst.
Posted by Brad Warthen at 10:00 PM in Education, Marketplace of ideas, Public opinion, Religion, South Carolina
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Comments
Brad, Brad, Brad...
And you were doing so well! Great editorials on DOT, lobbying...man, I was so impressed. So proud! I was like a new Papa!
Now it appears that Scoppee woman has slipped u a "Cindy"...and now u are back to harping about small issues concerning education. Come on now...don't let me down.
Get off this meaningless stuff (does size matter?)...and get back to doing your best work.
Beggin you, as SC needs results, and as there are zillions of people that will harp on the small stuff,
Chris
Posted by: chris | Feb 13, 2007 10:21:27 PM
Chris, let's get it right, shall we? It's a "CindI" with an emphasized 'I' at the end. Seriously, and in her defense, she inherited this name from her parents so we can't and don't hold it against her. The hyphenated last name she did NOT inherit however ~ no, she took this piece of snootiness and self-absorption upon herself. Puh-leeze, it's like she thinks anybody besides her cares what her maiden name is or was. Cindi has taken some ridiculous editorial positions over the years, and she can be relied upon to regularly knee-cap those who disagree with her. But this hyphenated last name thing, more than anything else, tells me that she isn't worth my time and is certainly no one to whom I need pay attention. Ed
Posted by: Ed | Feb 14, 2007 8:32:35 AM
Read my above post quickly, it will only be a few moments before Brad blows it up. After all, he'll say, that's not what what this blog is about. I assert however that having fun with Rosse-Scoppes' name is at least as relevant and productive as is the morbid fixation with jaundiced view of any school-choice event that he and others at "The State" take. Hey Brad, choice is good for abortionists and those who may want an abortion, why isn't it good for those who may actually want an education for their kids? Ed
Posted by: Ed | Feb 14, 2007 8:51:13 AM
Brad, did you communicate your misgivings about the numbers to anyone in the news department? I see that Lisa Michals went with the "3,500-4,000" estimate of the organizers.
Michals used as supporting evidence the organizers' claim to have chartered 60 buses which could hold a total of 2,400 people. Frankly, downtown Columbia would have been flooded with buses if that were the case.
Of course, Andre Bauer was "overwhelmed"-- but, he's thrilled anytime more than a handful of people pay attention to him, anyway.
Posted by: Ready to Hurl | Feb 14, 2007 9:18:50 AM
Hey,
I did not mean to start a disrespectful thread. I was trying to be funny...sorry it failed. But I was serious about you doing the big things, and leaving the little things to the worker bees...
Again, the DOT and Lobbying editorials were dead on, and had an impact. That is the kind of journalistic leadership SC needs. Guessing at crowds that don't matter, about an issue that is so clouded, impedes progress in areas where progress can be made.
Keep banging away…
Chris
Posted by: chrisw | Feb 14, 2007 9:28:01 AM
Lest anyone mistake the above bizarre comments about me as being based on facts (not that most people would actually care), my name is not and never has been hyphenated.
Posted by: Cindi Scoppe | Feb 14, 2007 9:30:50 AM
Fished in! Poor Cindi -- she couldn't hold back. Of course, she IS setting the record straight.
Speaking of that, Ed, go back and read my column. "Choice" is most assuredly NOT OK for pro-abortion folk, as far as I'm concerned.
Anybody who starts off saying their issue is really about "choice" stirs my suspicion immediately.
Posted by: Brad Warthen | Feb 14, 2007 12:11:53 PM
I couldn't resist checking out the blog, Brad. I posted this on the State House site from The State about the "Save Our Money" rally:
"Interesting that they had a rally during a school day. Guess that highlights one of the big differences in public and private schools. Attendance. Just leave a day of school to go lobby for a savings for your family.
While I understand why the people want the break, it is for a system that is not accountable. You can't use my tax money for that."
I have to take a personal day to go to College of Charleston for Presidents' Day Monday. (My daughter has received a Presidential Scholarship.) I wonder if the teachers at the private schools had to take a personal day to go to the State House.
Nah.
Posted by: Susan | Feb 14, 2007 6:06:20 PM
Susan,
Gimme a break!
Virtually the entire educational system was turned into a Jim Rex campaign effort in 06. The Floyd campaign has reams of information about the political use of school computers, fax machines, teacher lounges and meetings, phone systems, etc...by the Rex camp.
So please, don't pretend tax dollars are not regularly spent for political purposes!
Posted by: chris | Feb 14, 2007 7:37:40 PM
"virtually the entire educational system"? As active as I was in discussing the issue, I didn't send any faxes or sit at my desk typing emails for Rex. My students worked hard. We covered all the material. Guess I was the only teacher who didn't make the Hoover files.
Susan, to Bishop Baker's credit this was not a recruiting endeavor but an issue of social justice. That is a big deal in our Catholic Faith.
Posted by: Randy Ewart | Feb 15, 2007 2:37:59 AM
Chris,
Nice use of hyperbole. I have no idea what you exactly heard about the classroom computers, faxes, lounges, etc. being hotbeds of discussion about Jim Rex. I use my computer at school for school communication as well as parent communication, attendance, and record-keeping. I have very little time for anything else. I'm not sure what district Floyd used to gather her information, but it wasn't mine that I am aware of.
And I'm not sure what "tax dollars" have to do with it. I was observing that the private schools are a very different entity when it comes to attendance. If I had taken my classes over there to participate in a protest for the "other side," someone would have roasted the public school teacher and students who came and missed a day of school for political purposes.
Kind of like you did.
Posted by: Susan | Feb 15, 2007 6:54:56 AM
Chris,
Nice use of hyperbole. I have no idea what you exactly heard about the classroom computers, faxes, lounges, etc. being hotbeds of discussion about Jim Rex. I use my computer at school for school communication as well as parent communication, attendance, and record-keeping. I have very little time for anything else. I'm not sure what district Floyd used to gather her information, but it wasn't mine that I am aware of.
And I'm not sure what "tax dollars" have to do with it. I was observing that the private schools are a very different entity when it comes to attendance. If I had taken my classes over there to participate in a protest for the "other side," someone would have roasted the public school teacher and students who came and missed a day of school for political purposes.
Kind of like you did.
Posted by: Susan | Feb 15, 2007 7:01:04 AM
Chris,
Nice use of hyperbole. I have no idea what you exactly heard about the classroom computers, faxes, lounges, etc. being hotbeds of discussion about Jim Rex. I use my computer at school for school communication as well as parent communication, attendance, and record-keeping. I have very little time for anything else. I'm not sure what district Floyd used to gather her information, but it wasn't mine that I am aware of.
As for "teacher lounge talk," I wasn't aware that tax dollars controlled my conversation while I'm at school. That's news. I guess students can only talk about school subjects while on campus, right?
And I'm not sure what "tax dollars" have to do with any of what I said. I was observing that the private schools are a very different entity when it comes to attendance. If I had taken my classes over there to participate in a protest for the "other side," someone would have roasted the public school teacher and students who came and missed a day of school for political purposes.
Kind of like you did.
Posted by: Susan | Feb 15, 2007 7:02:59 AM
As always...there is no purity like that of a SC school teacher. That is why I have NO hope of reform of the system...everyone in it is the model of perfection.
I have seen with my own eyes the records of school resources used in the 08 race. So I remain unconvinced by your arguments.
Chris
And you seem to forget that private schools are not supported by tax dollars...and certainly go to the state hours or anywhere else for that matter...
Posted by: chris | Feb 15, 2007 1:52:04 PM
Speaking of computers and teachers, what does everyone think of the substitute teacher in Massachusetts (I think) who was charged with exposing kids to computer porn. Her defense was she was told to never turn the computer off and was only abiding by the rules when all of a sudden these things started popping up while the kids were trying to link from an innocent web site on hair styles (or something benign like that). Her defense seems plausible, but I don't know. The potential penalty, up to 40 years, really is absurd though. Perhaps a few months probation, even if she's lying, would be appropriate.
Posted by: bud | Feb 15, 2007 3:14:33 PM
Chris,
I'm not sure why you have so little respect for the public school teacher. Maybe it is justified, and I'm sorry for whatever has happened to make you feel that way.
I am not trying to "argue" my point. I was pointing out that your use of the term "virtually the entire system" was exaggerated. I didn't, and I'm not aware of any teachers around me doing so. At least no one approached me with political materials at school. The other teacher on here seems unaware as well. So, maybe it was confined to the upstate. Who knows? If you saw the evidence, you saw it. But I think you are overgeneralizing.
"Purity" seems to be an odd choice of words, though. I never thought of myself that way, though I feel that we are often held to higher standards than people in some professions. I understand why, for the most part, since we work with children and teenagers.
But we are voters and taxpayers as well. My gasoline and food costs the same. I just would like some of the hypocrisy to abate. The higher standards for testing, attendance, etc. apply to my students but not to others? Yet they want tax money?
Posted by: Susan | Feb 15, 2007 7:11:39 PM
Susan, Chris explained a few weeks ago that he spent some time with Floyd and apparently this shaped his whole view of our system.
He does have a point though, he saw some evidence so clearly almost all of us were guilty - impressive use of inductive reasoning.
Posted by: Randy Ewart | Feb 15, 2007 9:08:10 PM
Randy,
There you go thinking again. Please revert back to your worker bee status. I said my piece, she said hers. No need for you to chime in.
We know that you and the rest of the school system are without sin, hence the inability for us to achieve meaningful reform. No matter what the criticism, there is always the same response…it is not our fault (or we don’t have a choice, or we did not do it, etc)
Of course, I overstated the case for arguments sake. But you two brilliant representatives of the educational system have made my case for me by declaring that there is no politics in the school system. Well, Randy and Susan…anyone that has ever been in state government, or education, knows otherwise. So…it is so. My point is made. Thanks.
Chris
Posted by: chris | Feb 16, 2007 8:29:22 AM
Actually, Chris, you have made a point that I believe: too many people outside of education thinks he or she knows better than the people in it. Why, I'm not sure, though. I guess it is just because just about everyone has been in school in some fashion, which is fair to a certain extent.
I don't know your background. If it's education, I'd be interested in knowing at what level. Public or private? Politics? What level? City? County? State? I am interested. Really. I think experience colors the perception of a situation.
You may think Mr. Ewart and I are dogmatically in support of our profession. Honestly, should it be any other way? If I weren't passionate about my job, why would I do it? If I didn't read political discussions about my profession, my life would be easier. But I can't be that apathetic. I think part of the problem is that many not in education think teachers, like children, are not to be heard. Is it that hard for you to listen to us?
Posted by: Susan | Feb 16, 2007 11:11:35 PM
My pet theory, Susan: it's fear. Just like some men are personally afraid of smart women, many of the hoi polloi are afraid (or resentful) of teachers.
Teachers bossed them around for a dozen years-- sometimes making them feel inadequate, inferior or stupid. Since the vast majority of teachers are women, maybe male feelings of inadequacy does play a role in the resentment/fear.
Of course, one insight (that many of the critics aren't even sophisticated enough to consider) is that if educators were to organize (politically or union-wise) then they'd be quite a force to be reckoned with.
I've never quite understood why educators aren't more organized and forceful-- at least at the district level. If I had the opportunity to vote for the board of directors of my employer I'd be thrilled.
Posted by: Ready to Hurl | Feb 17, 2007 12:04:53 AM
Susan,
In reading your comments, their words and tone, I suspect you are a fine teacher. While we may disagree, I respect what you have said.
(Ready to Hurl…don’t weaken her argument by agreeing with her, and using that inflammatory language. Susan may affect me on this issue. You have not a chance)
More later…I need coffee now.
Chris
Posted by: chrisw | Feb 17, 2007 8:52:25 AM
RTH,
I hope I don't ever make my students or anyone else fear me. I'm not sure that's a good motivator. I have always just hoped for respect.
In the many years I have taught, though, I have noticed the amount of respect for the public classroom teacher has almost bottomed out. Now I don't mean by everyone. The majority of the parents of my students are very respectful toward me. I have noticed, though, that more parents are extremely vocal about what they perceive as injustice toward their children and more will blame teachers first. I have been very lucky so far (knock on wood), but that spectre always hovers there in the offing. (Actually, I don't think I've ever NOT feared my job. I don't mean the students. They are great. Just the fear of getting that phone call from that parent to be called down to the office to meet with that principal who has received a call from that superintendent...and so on.)
So, ironically, I guess, the fear is in me,placed there by people who don't even sit in my classroom and who don't know me.
Chris,
I have also noticed that with more and more changes coming from the State Department (and when are we EVER going to just stay ONE course??) our district offices are becoming more controlling, not allowing teachers their autonomy in the classroom. If a teacher is not doing his or her job, deal with that teacher. Don't monitor every teacher to the point of frustration and burn-out. The more this education debate rages, the more teachers who are going to say, "Screw it." All of it boils down to lack of respect.
When you made your comments that sounded as if you thought we were organized in some cabal trying to influence to SoE race, I wanted to let you know that my district as far as I know did not send stuff out. I am too busy doing my job during the day for that.
Both of you,
I don't think teachers ever will organize totally because they aren't expected to. And they know it. God forbid a teacher should speak her opinion. We see how people will react when we do.
I may dress different from the frontier times, I have much more technology, but I'm not sure we have moved from the days of the one-room school house in some ways.
Posted by: Susan | Feb 17, 2007 12:10:21 PM
chrisw, I'm mystified. Where did you get the idea that my mission on this blog is to convince you of anything?
This isn't kindergarten and I'm not angling for Miss Congeniality. I made an observation. You're free to disagree and debate it.
Clucking like a mother hen over my "inflammatory" language is richly ironic given the lambasting that rightwing has reserved for anyone disagreeing with their viewpoint for the past dozen years, or so.
The mistake that liberals/progressives have only begun to rectify is that we've been too accommodating, too respectful of a ruthless movement that seeks permanent power by any means-- including destroying the opposition.
Posted by: Ready to Hurl | Feb 17, 2007 12:43:03 PM
RTH
You make my point. If you are not here to persuade...then why are u here?
As I said before...your comments are designed to make yourself feel good, oh so smart...and yes, ...superior.
So with you there is no conversation, no persuasion...just emotional release, in some orgasmic flatulence enjoyable to no one but you.
So…what is the point?.
Nihilism is boring. And seldom productive.
Posted by: chris | Feb 17, 2007 6:29:46 PM
Chris, the recent "flatulence" on this site has come from the vibrating sphincter channeling your "conservative" thoughts towards your keyboard.
Long ago you championed the position of Floyd and supported your reasoning by admitting you "spent some time around her". You based your compreshensive view on education on what amounted to 5 minutes of chatting with her. You need not admit that you "overstate your case". It's been obvious that you mispresent facts, which you also admitted you have little use for.
Posted by: Randy Ewart | Feb 18, 2007 11:37:27 PM
