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Thursday, 17 July 2008
Would Obama victory be 'bad for black folks'?
My attention was just drawn to this item by Lawrence Bobo on TheRoot.com, headlined, "President Obama: Monumental Success or Secret Setback?" An excerpt:
To hear some barbershop talk, it is as if the racial progress in America that Obama's success has helped to crystallize also brings with it a death knell for true racial justice. If Obama becomes the president, every remaining, powerfully felt black grievance and every still deeply etched injustice will be cast out of the realm of polite discourse. White folks will just stop listening.
A black president means that America no longer has any race problem to talk about! It would mean there is no longer any special debt to African Americans to be repaid! Kiss that 40 acres and a mule goodbye, my friends (or that BMer and a Rolex in modern reparations exchange units)....
I have two thoughts about this piece, if it's OK for a white guy to weigh in on this:
- Talk about what the election of Barack Obama as a black man means misses the point, since -- as a lot of black folks asserted last year leading up to the primaries -- Obama simply is not a "black man" in the sense that the phrase has meaning in American history, sociology and politics. I've got a column I'm planning on writing about that, after I read his autobiography on the subject. It will be headlined "Barack Like Me," and it will be rooted in the experiences he and I share spending part of our formative years in Hawaii (where race simply did not mean what it means here) and outside the United States -- both in the Third World, in fact. None of these experiences are common to the sort of guy we describe when we say "black American." I hope to write that one before the summer is over.
- Because the popular narrative of this is that Obama IS a black man (despite all the evidence I see to the contrary), that's the way an Obama victory will play in the public imagination. And that WILL be a death knell to the kind of black politics of resentment and grievance practiced by Jesse Jackson and (even more so by) Al Sharpton, Jeremiah Wright and to some extent by black politicos here in SC (such as Leon Howard, who said the former superintendent of Richland 1 had to go because "He catered to white folks").
Mr. Bobo agrees with me on the latter point, by the way:
"The politics of the perpetual outsiders demanding inclusion will finally end (read: Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson will get less face time). And good riddance (perhaps). We've come too far over too many years for shrill protest to still be our main political posture today, no matter how necessary and relevant in the past...."
Posted by Brad Warthen at 03:31 PM in 2008 Presidential, Barack Obama, Columns, Coming Attractions, Elections, Personal, Race, The Nation
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Comments
I can't imagine it actually being a setback, and the people at TheRoot will feel like they just killed someone they felt they could bring back, but better. Sound familiar? Hilarious cartoon, too, here at the comedy site 236.com
http://www.236.com/blog/w/lee_camp/a_detailed_analysis_of_obamas_2_7767.php
Posted by: Morgan Walker | Jul 17, 2008 3:53:56 PM
How will a socialist radical black Muslim President be good for anyone in America?
Posted by: Lee Muller | Jul 17, 2008 4:37:05 PM
Someone alert Kathleen Parker. I tended to agree with her for scoffing at liberals for worrying that the New Yorker cover would be taken literally by the irony-deprived out there. But she and I reckoned without Lee Muller.
Posted by: Brad Warthen | Jul 17, 2008 4:46:59 PM
Have you read Obama's MEIN KAMPF, where he details the great influences in his life being communists and Muslim radicals?
How do you feel about Obama forcing you to purchase full medical insurance with YOUR money, even if you don't want it, don't need it, and are already covered? Of course, your employer will drop your coverage... that's the whole idea.
Posted by: Lee Muller | Jul 17, 2008 5:47:24 PM
"How will a socialist radical black Muslim President be good for anyone in America?"
Brad, much of what Lee often rants about is debatable (socialist, radical, communist, etc...) ... but calling Obama a Muslim is simply a lie by Lee designed to smear both Obama and the majority of Islam. So, out of curiosity, how bad does someone need to get in their repeated lies posted here to get booted? (Not that I don't find our resident xenophobic, homophobic, racist, self-centered, greedy, fascist who cloaks it all in libertarianism amusing... but at some point...)
Posted by: just saying | Jul 17, 2008 6:23:29 PM
Actually, Lee's been booted before, back when he just signed himself "Lee." As I've explained before, I grant more leeway (no pun intended) to those who use their full names.
For most people, that has a moderating effect on the way they express themselves. For others, well...
Of course, use of one's full name isn't absolute protection. I've deleted, and banned, people for obscenity, and persistent hostility of a sort that exceeds Lee's, if you can imagine it. And if you can't, you are blessed.
And as you say, isn't it somewhat better to know Lee's out there thinking this stuff? Maybe not; I just thought I'd pose the question...
Posted by: Brad Warthen | Jul 17, 2008 6:31:20 PM
Ok. I was just curious. (And being among the anonymous... I guess I didn't need to include all the adjectives there.)
Anyway, thanks for providing the forum and the (often) interesting starting points.
Posted by: just saying | Jul 17, 2008 6:41:53 PM
We don't know Obama's religious beliefs.
He says he is Christian,
but his church is a "non-denominational" polyglot of several religions,
his hate-mongering pastor of 20 years is a "former" Black Muslim,
Obama has praised, and been praised by, Louis Farakan,
Obama is his new Muslim name, changed from his Christian, American birth name,
Obama's father was an Afro-centrist communist, buried in a Muslim funeral,
Obama's uncle and brother are Muslims and communists,
Obama is supported by Omar Khadaffi and Islamic terrorist leaders of Hamas,
Obama and his advisors have met with Hamas, Hezbollah, and other terrorists
Those are the basic FACTS.
If you have some reason to trust him in our war with radical Islam, what is it?
Posted by: Lee Muller | Jul 17, 2008 7:10:47 PM
We don't know Obama's religious beliefs.
He says he is Christian,
but his church is a "non-denominational" polyglot of several religions,
his hate-mongering pastor of 20 years is a "former" Black Muslim,
Obama has praised, and been praised by, Louis Farakan,
Obama is his new Muslim name, changed from his Christian, American birth name,
Obama's father was an Afro-centrist communist, buried in a Muslim funeral,
Obama's uncle and brother are Muslims and communists,
Obama is supported by Omar Khadaffi and Islamic terrorist leaders of Hamas,
Obama and his advisors have met with Hamas, Hezbollah, and other terrorists
Those are the basic FACTS.
If you have some reason to trust him in our war with radical Islam, what is it?
Posted by: Lee Muller | Jul 17, 2008 7:10:52 PM
I happen to agree with Prof. Bobo on the points made. However, I think that Obama's success will more of a negative effect than is being anticipated. Because of the "Obama Effect," more blacks have tried/will try their hand at applying for certain jobs or running for office, spurred on by Obama's phenomenal, rather expeditious degree of political success. Some blacks will be successful, even if they are not outwardly qualified for the job/office they are seeking. (One of the recent "primary victories" is controversial just for this reason.) Yet, Obama will become the symbol which will justify further exclusion of blacks in a lot of arenas. Many blacks will be highly qualified and truly able to do the job for which they are applying/campaigning, and are trying to get the job on their own merits, not because of Obama. They may be shut out because non-blacks may get their "fill" of seeing black faces showing up for interviews and on TV/in print running for office. Non-blacks with racist leanings may use the success of the few (and the continued push for success by others) as irrational "proof" that "blacks are taking over" and "blacks are pushing whites back", so blacks should no longer collectively cry "racism" and "discrimination". On the other hand, successful blacks may employ the standard "crabs-in-a-barrel" mentality and try to block the success of other black hopefuls, especially if the hopeful is more educated, better qualified, and poses a (real or imagined) threat to the already successful black employee/official.
Finally, to address your issue of "granting leeway to people who use their full names," I have chosen not to use mine because (1) I don't know who reads this blog and (2) I don't want to say something here which will jeopardize my future prospects of a job. I have a lot of education (three degrees - working on a fourth), several years of work experience, and am trying to find a well-paying job to break the cycle of poverty without having to take the job located at the "subterranean level" just to get in. The last thing I want to do is expose my identity to potential employers (black or non-black, fitting the above descriptions) and give them an additional incentive to exclude me from consideration.
Posted by: dnd | Jul 17, 2008 7:45:49 PM
"but his church is a "non-denominational" polyglot of several religions, "
Doesn't he attend a United Church of Christ church? The UCC has very close relationships with the Disciples of Christ, ELCA, Presbyterian Church (USA), and Reformed Church in America. It is one of the mainline protestant churches and is hardly "non-denomination".
Posted by: just saying | Jul 17, 2008 8:36:56 PM
My observation of the doggeral preached and enthusiastically absorbed at Obama's church is that it is far from mainstream Christianity, Islam, or any other established theology. It is a personality cult, based on racist hatred. Anyone who thinks otherwise has not listened to much of what goes on there, or is unfamiliar with genuine Christianity.
All other areas of Obama's belief system are just as warped.
Posted by: Lee Muller | Jul 17, 2008 8:43:54 PM
"is unfamiliar with genuine Christianity."
What kind of Christian would say that another who confesses Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior is lying about it?
Is there any Christian who has thought about it who would want to have their Faith in the Lord judged based on the worst of their words and deeds? Have their particular church judged based on its worst moment?
Posted by: just saying | Jul 17, 2008 9:21:14 PM
Just, the UCC church is in full communion with the churches you mentioned and the ECUSA as well. On their web page it states that the UCC "Formed by the 1957 merger of the Congregational Christian Churches and the Evangelical and Reformed Church."
Some of my German ancestors were members of the "Evangelische Kirche in Deutschland" (or EKD- German Evangelical Church), which is the "Evangelical" church referred to by the UCC. The EKD is also in full communion with the UCC.
Not the Herr Müller would know anything about that.
Posted by: zzazzeefrazzee | Jul 17, 2008 10:14:12 PM
Is he a Socialist or Communist Muslim, Lee?
Can you make up your mind?
It's still an oxymoron.
Posted by: zzazzeefrazzee | Jul 17, 2008 10:15:42 PM
"...Obama's church is that it is far from mainstream Christianity, Islam, or any other established theology."
So you still call Obama a Muslim after you claim that his church is far from mainstream Islam?
Just curious as to what your thoughts are on John McCain seeking John Hagee's endorsement since Hagee's religious beliefs are far from mainstream Christianity.
Thanks for making our points of showing what a hypocrite you are.
Finally, if you want a religious group be incharge of the government, (theocracy) go live in Iran.
This is America.
Posted by: Mark | Jul 18, 2008 5:28:39 AM
Mr. Warthen wrote, "Obama simply is not a 'black man' in the sense that the phrase has meaning in American history, sociology and politics. ...if it's OK for a white guy to weigh in on this."
Let's see: Obama spent 20 years in a church overseen by the now notorious Rev. Wright, married a woman who has the black act down to a stereotypic certainty and churned out the most liberal voting record in the Senate since taking office.
Sounds just like a white guy to me, now that the NBA as so many white players almost no slots are left for black guys and the moon's green cheese has tomato sauce lathering the dark side.
"Barack Like You," eh, Mr. Warthen? How much time did you spend at Harvard? Do you switch stances on issues likes clothes for winter and summer?
How would you know the man? He's doing his best to hide the real Obama, IF there is one.
Posted by: penultimo mcfarland | Jul 18, 2008 6:26:17 AM
as i have said before....
who is obama and what does he really stand for? let's get beyond the nebulous 'change we can believe in' and get specific.
Posted by: Tom Willett | Jul 18, 2008 8:29:01 AM
Surely we can dispense with the "most liberal voting record in the Senate" line by now? That designation is created by folks who have an interest in seeing the label applied to the current Democratic presidential candidate, so they pick and choose the votes under consideration to attain the desired outcome. Or are we supposed to believe it's just a coincidence that John Kerry had the "most liberal voting record in the Senate" in 2004?
Posted by: Wally Altman | Jul 18, 2008 8:40:29 AM
Is the idea here to have real discussion and engagement with ideas to solve the issues or just a standard left-right rant blog? The politics of outrage (left or right) may feel good, but are a dead end. There are real issues to explore and while ranting consumes time and emotional energy, it doesn't actually accomplish a thing.
As to those who just like to rant, like Mr Muller, if you can't ban them, maybe everyone could agree just to ignore them? That's what we do in the real world with people like that. (Though having it all in print makes it hard to ignore them and follow what's going on whenever every other post is a rant!) Or just delete rants. Or limit them to one, and delete the repeats.
I wonder if giving them so much attention keeps many folks from not engaging at all, as it's just not worth one's time. He's only interested in getting people riled up. Yawn.
Or maybe the people on this blog are mostly here for the theater, and so this blog's just not for me.
Posted by: Tired of All This | Jul 18, 2008 9:05:04 AM
mr. Macfarland asked the question which all Obama supporters refuse to answer:
Can you describe in detail Obama's position on any particular issue, and tell us why you agree with him?
Can you tell EXACTLY what his religious beliefs are? How can you tell?
Posted by: Lee Muller | Jul 18, 2008 10:23:49 AM
Lee, seriously...
Obama has written two books about his life and experiences, and his website has page after page of where he stands on all kinds of issues, and has plenty of specifics. If you have XM, at least one place I know of, you can listen to the press pool ask him tons of questions, sans script or teleprompter, which he proceeds to, gasp, answer. If you can't seem to figure out where he stands or what he's about, then you are deliberately choosing to either not take any of it in, or choosing to believe that everything he has ever done or said is an outright lie.
Posted by: Jay | Jul 18, 2008 11:16:56 AM
My challenge goes unanswered.
I already know Obama.
I asked you Obama supporters if YOU know the details of his agenda, his religious beliefs, his ideology regarding socialism and free markets.
So far, I see nothing.
The Obama supporters seem to be as shallow as his rhetoric. They seem to be afraid to delve into the details of the Obamas. They seem afraid of having to admit his detractors are right. Maybe they are just too lazy.
Posted by: Lee Muller | Jul 18, 2008 11:38:21 AM
"I asked you Obama supporters if YOU know the details of his agenda, "
I posted four in a subsequent thread.
Posted by: just saying | Jul 18, 2008 6:26:07 PM
My challenge goes unanswered.
Pick an issue that makes you support Obama, and explain how his position will benefit YOU, and how it will benefit or harm other Americans.
From what I have seen, most Obama supporters know nothing more than, "Change!".
Posted by: Lee Muller | Jul 19, 2008 4:27:07 PM
